White Just Isn't Viable Late Game
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Conduits and Precogniters
Sure they are, red is just better at every phase of the game tho imo
Red has AOE and White doesn't which is the essential "problem". Having either AOE or big tanks - you want some combo of that for big clusterfucks and White is lacking a little. Conduit/precog is still very good though.
White can play a very good support though they are somewhat hampered I think by the titanfight mechanic and Emberfiends in particular
White had a very good midgame before this patch but now I think there isn't enough of a midgame for them to really shine. Sabres into Deadeyes was fantastic but now it's a speedbump most of the time.
Yea I think white is still just fine, but when/why should anyone pick white over red?
They have always felt like they had a lot of overlap, with one of them just feeling "better" in any given patch. I think Sabres started to give them some interesting differentiation but they probably could use a whole lot more to make them feel different than red.
Nobody here has mentioned Zephyrs, but I think there's a seriously underestimated unit. Gust is amazing for protecting siege units. The AOE slow just looks terrifying, and people move because it's a scary circle on the ground. (Devs: it's too hard to distinguish AOE abilities. I hope this will be fixed with further animation work.)
I'm starting to think of White as the support color.
HAHAHAHAAHAH
You guys are funny.
White is the best race in the game right now.
What the fuck are you guys even on about?
Its not the best race. Its a good race like all races. I think there is no best race at the moment. White is more a singeltarget supportrace with long range and depents more on the team composition from your allies. Its not a burst damage race like red. All races have a role. You just need to find out how to play it. White in combination with Red and Blue/Green is super strong. Blue/Green as tank in the frontline, Red as burst damagedealer and White behind the lines as support with longerange and nice support abilities is super strong.
But if you want real damage, than i must say play Red. White isn't made for damage at all. White is made for removing squishy and importand damagdealer from the opponent side. You must see White as a support assassin race.
I use Zephyrs in combination with Purifiers right now and doing really well with this build. The most players made the misstake to clumb with them on one big position. In a fight you need to split off purifiers way way waaaay back from your opponent. Never siege this unit close to your opponent. Use Zephyres to push back blue if he want to come in and use the AOE slow with Precognitors. Eventually repositioning some Purifiers. Purifiers, Zephyrs, Precognitors and one Windray is a really strong support build.
Sorry this post can be removed i made a mistake. ^^
It's probably not the best race, and I'm saying that after lots and lots of high level games where White just had very little impact to the point where top players aren't picking it any more against each other. There's a lot of good arguments for it being the worst in this patch. I would personally say it's the worst by a pretty clear margin, probably the only faction that I don't think is very competitively viable right now. The other 3 factions feel about the same as each other in terms of power, which is what's making it so hard to pick white at the moment.
But what I really want to say is that the Zephyr circle on the ground needs to be way more unique an effect, because it's super hard to tell what it is other than DANGER CIRCLE
It's also semi-easily confused with Precog's Blinding Smoke
OK. Lemme show you on Saturday : )
I'm not sure, I think it's too early to really be able to tell. White certainly has perhaps the most interesting composition of units, with zephyrs, conduits, auraguy and precogs late game. It does have a very high skill ceiling, especially compared to the other colors. But that also means they are harder to play.
I think the whole "no early game"-meta is perhaps hitting white too hard, but like I said I think people are still too noob to fully utilize the support strength of white, and are yet to figure out how to combo with it effectively.
PS. 1000th comment??
Yes. DANGER CIRCLE. I approve of this moniker.
I agree with Kaenaster that White is indeed a very strong utility faction. White has support units that can make fights one sided, especially against tanks. Having one blinding smoke shuts down aquadillos and using the gust, white can push away blue's support units trapping the aquadillo. Similar things can be said to Green or white on white action. It's not the damage that matters imo, it's the fear effect. However, most White players have a very difficult time achieving zone control with such a complex build since they are too newby for such a composition(even top tourny players imo), since it requires 200 APM micro in the right places(not 200 apm spam). Remember, the scenarios I'm mentioning involves other players. White is simply incapable of dealing damage, but its support abilities make even 2 on 1 fights risky.
"White is simply incapable of dealing damage,"-perhaps an attribute that allows White to lower supply count of all units by 1 at level 20 or have white decrease the cost of its units by 15% by level 20. This will allow white to get a larger army to put out more dps.
Blinding smoke doesn't do anything against aquadillos.
The damage is there in the units... it's just Purifiers are gimmicky and thats a large source of the damage.
I think if they really shortened the uproot time to like near instant, this would really add to their survivability, but still punish bad positioning by giving you no DPS and still likely losing units as they are slow as hell. Just maybe won't lose the entire army. Lengthen the time it takes to enter siege if the need be. Just don't make them so hard to keep alive.
We've played the whole tournament with white and Purifier. Yes you need a hard tanking frontline and yes they are slow as hell, but changing anything at whit isn't the solution. Fixing the other classes would be better
e.g. some units should be T4 like Aquadillos, Batterhorn, Apocolyte, Windray and maybe some other.
maybe a change at the Zephyr skill Squall would fix that "Problem" too, just at 30% root and uproot speed.
My Team and me discussed a bit about our strategy with playing whiteand Purifiers and we got some ideas how we can play it better in the next time.
There are many ways to save your Purifier damage.
- Good Frontline (blue and green)
- You NEED Zephyrs to zone the enemys and Gust them out of your army
- Snerp Herder could be a good Idea
- Precog and Windray to save Purifier against snipes and stay as far as possible
We played with Celesta as hero, yeh the ult is a great way to zone and you can scout with the D but the whisps are horrible at start.
6 seconds invis and 30 % movementspeed could be better + u can root your purifier while they are invise.
i think, white is'nt that weak, we are, the white players, who are to weak. We need more skill, thats all
Sorry for my english, first time leaving my shell :D:D:D
My bad, I misplaced aquadillos.
Purifiers might do good damage on their own, but needing to invest in Precog / Windray / Zephyrs + possibly still needing to go Vela for the Ult, is leaving you with an army that does NOT do a lot of damage compared to other armies and tying up 3 units in your deck to support 1 unit. Hell, Conduits are probably going to leave you with an overall better comp then this, with their ability up they do more damage, and are much easier to keep alive. My suggestion doesn't make Purifiers any harder hitting or do more damage - it just means you don't have to invest QUITE as much to keep them alive, you will still obviously need at least Zephyrs and Windray or some combination of support units - it likely frees up a single slot at best.
"Playing red is currently the best build for white" - DQME 2016
Yes you are right, u need a bunch of other units to play stable with Purifiers,
BUT
Zephyrs, Precog, Snerp and Windray will support your other Teammates too, Precogs Blinding Smoke, Zephyrs Squirl and Gust are awesome to zone or support your Teammates, Brambls that walk faster while the enemy is slowed or an entire melee army pushed away from the titan and so on, The Purifier damage is just one Part, the massive crowd control is the other and don't forget, you can use the vela ult in both situations, defensive and offensive.
I've played that combination (Vela/Purifier/Zephyr/Precog/Windray/Snerp) the last games and it worked pretty fine.
This needs to work, I'm tired of playing blue green red vs blue green red ^^
emptyquoting best post of 2016
So for all the 'white is perfectly viable' and 'we'll show you this Saturday', don't think it quite went to plan when RGB just $$$'d everything.
And how does that prove anything without statistics on how many people played with/without white and how many teams that actually had a chance to get into the top 3 played with/without white?
Peter: "Hey, white cars suck because at the recent local car racing not a single white car made Top 5!"
Mike: "How many participants did the car racing have?"
Peter: "15!"
Mike: "And how many people drove a white car?"
Peter: "2!"
Mike lols...
So by that logic he wouldn't have proven anything by winning either
Is it that hard to understand? If any number of teams are equally as likely to get to rank one but only one third of the teams play white and 2/3 of the teams do not play white, the chance for a team with a white player winning the tournament is only 33%. It would be expected for white to not be in the winning team. Now if only 20% play white, the chance for white to be #1 is equally as low. And thats only if teams have equal skill and the game is balanced. Now the balance is whats's questioned here, but in order to reduce it to a balance problem, first we have to eliminate things like chance.
Now if we add to that that the Top seeded teams (by Team MMR) have not played white, the whole thing starts getting more complicated, but that doesn't mean it can be ignored. The more Teamm MMR, the more likely a team is to win and the teams with the highest MMR ratings did not play white, so it was highly unlikely for white to win and quite unlike for white to be in the Top 3.
So now no white team made Top 3, fine, this just proves that the improbable thing didn't happen but thats the case most of the time, so nothing to deduce from that regarding balance.
I am not saying white is not weak or anything, all I am saying is that without proper statistics of color usage in the tournament, using the tourney results in the way Drago did is just non sense.
I understand statistics very well and that was a definite throwaway post by me in an attempt to be cheeky, but your post was also a throwaway bit of armchair "stats". It's almost impossible to generate a statistically significant result from so few tournament entries (and so few playing white) regardless of whether they win or lose.
But we can develop statistically significant results from hundreds of games of practice and preparation, and it is impossible to ignore the data that shows virtually every successful team determined that White was not a correct pick for this tournament. We were being asked to discard that evidence in anticipation of a White takedown of the whole event, we were skeptical, and it didn't happen, so we remain skeptical based upon our prior data and the conclusions reached by dozens of participants.
It would have been an interesting bit of anecdotal evidence if a White team had won the tourney. As it stands, I'm convinced the results simply reinforced what we'd mostly suspected and fairly reasonably proved in advance.
Totally true
And thats fine. Even though I personally do not think white is that bad, it may be a bit behind right now. Also, I do not ignore what others think about white, I just think that this one tournament is not enough. Maybe the devs can use the matchmaking stats for a more accurate picture of the current balance regarding white.
It would have been interesting, yes, but while a white win would have proven that white is not in a bad spot, white not winning doesn't prove the contrary. Thats really all I wanted to say, yet it somehow turned into a whole different discussion.