Armory Damage Upgrades

MrWolf · December 2015

100 Gold 10% Damage Boost
200 Gold 25% Damage Boost

Wisp, 50 Gold 7 Damage

@350 Gold, 1 Wisp(s), 8.75 Damage per Wisp 8.75 Damage
@350 Gold, 7 Wisp(s), 7.00 Damage per Wisp 49.00 Damage

@900 Gold, 12 Wisp(s), 8.75 Damage per Wisp 105.00 Damage
@900 Gold, 18 Wisp(s), 7.00 Damage per Wisp 126.00 Damage

I am finding it hard to identify situations where it would be better to go for an armory upgrade over simply building another unit. Because of this, the armory upgrades feel less like decisions that I am making and more like a win more button used later in the game. I would be interested to see if others have found a use case for these upgrades, I would assume there exists a situation where opting for these upgrades makes sense. I just have not found one yet.

A solution to this issue could possibly be to go for an additive boost instead of a multiplicative boost. In this way weaker units would benefit greater from these upgrades and could generate situations where the benefits out weigh the costs. Perhaps taking another look at the cost of the upgrades could be another solution, opting to use gems and time rather then gold could help offset this.

SaveHolt · December 2015

I agree with this, I find myself building an army early game, maxing my units count out and then as an after thought applying some upgrades while pushing. I'm also still confused how to tell units that use physical damage and units that use magical damage - a UI indicator for P or M or colored dot or something.

Renegade · December 2015

I agree with this as well, units seem to be far better than upgrades

Decency · December 2015

Awesome post, MrWolf. Keep in mind that your max of each unit is limited, at which point you have to upgrade to increase damage. I'm going to assume that similar damage/gold ratios also apply to the second and third units of each squad, too, but that would be something else worth checking.

The main problem with mathcrafting this is that in real engagements, the number of units that are shooting at one time isn't usually your whole army. So if you're only able to have 4 out of your 10 units attack due to a concave or a flank or a choke point, you're better served by having upgrades.

With that said, I definitely agree that upgrades are something that I've always put off until after getting a bunch of units, because mathematically they just aren't something that's cost effective until that point.

Treisk · December 2015

My response as a player: Also worth considering: the upgrades to stats could often be a stylistic choice that is an alternative to getting a different unit type. For example, if a game requires me to be more mobile, maybe I get +damage or +speed upgrades instead of a Purifier or two.

My response as a designer: The system isn't in a completed state, so it's great to hear you say that this often feels like a non-viable option for you. Comments like this are actually great at telling us what you want to see, so more of this is fantastic. :D

Alos · December 2015

From my experience with games having these sorts of upgrades should favor the long term or timing attacks. Upgrades take time to research, so getting them earlier means that later you'll have a point where your units have an edge in upgrades. I can't speak for certain about the exact times for the current version of Atlas, but I'm sure there exists at least a few timings where getting upgrades first is advantageous.

EDIT: wait do upgrades take time to build or are they instant? I can't remember for sure now since I didn't pay much attention... if they're currently instant, I definitely think making them take time would give a proper incentive to get upgrades.

Also, with the point @Decency made, having only several units being able to attack is especially common with the current pathing. This would make situations like yours at 900 gold strongly favor the upgraded wisps unless the 18 wisps are microed very well or positioned favorably.

Cerebral09 · December 2015

I agree that smaller army sizes and very slow gold income take away from the impact of early upgrade rushes. If your opponent can build 3 more units in the same time and increase their DPS by more than the upgrade increases YOUR dps then that kinda sucks

Day9 · December 2015

Building units is currently mostly better than building upgrades early. The system absolutely needs some tuning. But, some overall artillery thoughts on the matter

Basic statistical upgrades are flat out interesting, cool, and fun in an RTS. Even though Atlas currently is "build units and then build upgrades," it's still fun to save up for something and know you've had a big boost to the power of your army.
DPS/damage isn't always quite appropriate when considering things. For instance, a single upgrade might make it so that your units can kill his in 3 hits instead of 4, or in some cases, you can now 1 shot units! These have a dramatic effect that isn't well represented as DPS.
Some of the upgrades gift subjective benefits, such as lifesteal, that we call "gifts." We are interested in expanding the idea of gifting units in varying ways alongside stat upgrades.

Wootdoot!