more rts elements
szarszag
Member
atm this game closer to moba than rts i wish a game mod with inversely
szarszag
Member
szarszag
Member
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Actually I'm hearing a lot of people with the same feeling as yours (which is even my feeling).
You know, we expected a game inspired even by SC: BW and SC2, and lots of players knew this game from Day9... Then we see that MOBA factor is heavily the dominant one and it gets quite disappointing...
I hope that more rts stuff will come out, too...
I feel similar. Your feedback will have more weight if you can spell out elements of RTS you enjoy. How does it feel when you do those things in your favorite RTS, and how is that different from how you feel in GoA?
First of all, hi, this is my very first post on these forums! I hope you are all having a nice day!
Second of all, > @wondible said:
OK, so what are our favorite elements of an RTS? Well, for one, choosing during a game is very important. Rather than select our units before the match even starts, we should have all the choices available and to have to make the decision about which one we want to warp-in.
Then there is base building. It's fun to "tech up" and get to where we want to be; some players go four of that production building while others prefer to mix and have a greater variety of units but less upgrades. In a good RTS most builds should be good ones so choice is a very important factor.
In GoA it's more about decision making, doing what you can with what you have, counters since you choose units to beat up your opponents' before the game even starts and you get to see what units your adversary will be able to spawn.
So what I would like to see in GoA is just basic base building. Can be like Halo Wars, really, with a building limit cap. I'm not even all that into choosing units the units we want during the match, you know, they've got their own thing going so let's see where it goes. But some very basic base building would be super nice! ^.^
agreed completely, i'd like more rts focus.
however, i think the main rts feature that's missing is more detailed economy management. i don't mind the automated features, however i think there should be more ways to interact with the economy, including actively hindering/harassing your opponent's resource operations, and expanding your own resource operations beyond just killing creeps.
the easiest way to do this is basically like expansions in starcraft. add a few points along the edges of the map where you can build a structure that produces energy and bioshards. should be far away, so the tradeoff of extra resources is requiring additional permanent map control - not just running in, killing creeps and leaving, but having an extra point that you have to watch continuously. this would satisfy the people who want a little element of base building too.
as for harassing them, maybe they don't give resources when they're actively being damaged? or maybe they're just really easy to kill and rebuild?
I was just gonna post something just like this. I agree totaly. I wish you could thumbs up comments here
I should add I only played GoA for one evening, about 10 games, and have a history of playing wc3,sc2,cnc3,dow,coh,aoe2....
I like the game. The early game is fun where you gets to contend for the few starting creepcamps, reminds me of wc3.
And I like the long microwars when Titans spawn, where you have to prioritize damaging the Titan or the enemy units.
But it often gets a bit stale between the Titan spawns. It´s most of the times not worth trying to push the towers. There should be some kind of points that you could harass and controll, like expansions in sc, or control points in Company of Heroes.
I would suggest points, far out like NegativeZero says, where your hero could construct a mine that give a small income. Cheap to build and easy to destroy. There could also be an uppgrade for an induvidual mine if you wanna invest more in one location.
This could be instead of the bunnies, but a bit futher out (expand the map size a bit)
Agreed, I'd also like to see more rts focused features. i really like the suggestion for adding resource generators which would maybe not only benefit the player but also share the generated resources with the whole team?. adds a layer of strategy depth to the game for more map control and a possibility to disrupt the enemy's economy. One other idea is the possibility of building defense structures on fixed locations or within your team's base, like towers which can then only be build by engineer units for a more defensive style of play if needed.
For me the Game feels way more like a RTS than a moba so far. The only aspect i see is that the map with all this towers seems like League of Legends or Dota 2. It feels way more like a combination of WarCraft 3 (Heroes with levelsystem) and StarCraft 2 (Units without levelsystem, lower hitpoints and upgrades). At least it also could be like Company of Heroes 2. Its a good RTS with no Workermacro. You just generate Resources from checkpoints. I don't need workers or a harder macrosystem in this game so far to really like it. It really dosn't matter for me.
the feeling might come from the clunky controls of dota 1 when playing it in warcraft 3 , but honestly ? you cant do all those keybinds in league or dota 2 so far im pleased and i prefer the controls as they are , if they were more like starcraft at this point my fingers would bleed and break off.
Honestly, to me the only major facet of RTS games that is missing here is constructing buildings. The other two are present: choosing/making units and controlling an army across a map. That being said, I think the current game mode plays well without constructing buildings. It would be nice to see a different game mode later with that part added. Also I haven't seen the need to split up my army to manage the map at all, although that might be because I don't know what I'm doing yet.
I think implementing economy changes which allow harrassment is too removed from the current game mechanics... unless there is some elegant means to implement it in the current system. One rts element that I would like to see is depth in unit composition. I truly like the characters and the unit, but the build order and unit compositions seem a bit simplistic. I've been playing vex for only a couple of days, and Ive already figured out - I think -the ideal tech route and army composition for the character which, I believe, takes away the skill in the strategy department and makes GoA a more engagement/positional game. Not to say it's not fun, but it would be nice to be able to have more strategic depth in this department.
I think the game feels pretty evenly between the two. I would like to see some economic tweaks, like camp respawn times cuts in half or something, so there is -always- some way on the map to be trying to gain a small advantage.
I think a complete rework of the production mechanic could help. It's a bit simple at the moment and lacks the almost exponential feel you get from BW/SC2. Everyone is always on equal footing after the 6 minute mark in terms of production. I think developing this as another avenue of tech where you can get ahead or behind would really help. I don't think at all it has to be visually represented as building.
you could gain an exponential feel by giving increasing benefits for each research into the 4 resources. e.g. after each 4 supply upgrades, each upgrade after gives an extra unit of supply. replicating the macro aspects of common rts that snowball based off of your focus.
the game has elements of this already though, e.g. you can stick at T1 for longer and go for med supply harassment by researching energy over and over and throwing bodies at the enemy team.
I suppose I should actually say what I feel about RTS. Mostly I think I like watching multiple fronts and distributing forces between them to make or defend pushes. This might be a different game though - that style of play may require slower relative movement, as in atlas a split army can evaporate very quickly if unwatched for a few seconds, and often requires active abilities to be effective. Base building only comes into it in so much as you are defending or taking resources, and defending or attacking the production resources in bases. Atlas is okay there, I have the capability to make generator/upgrade choices, although I'm not a fan of creeping. I'd rather be thinking about my next big play than dpsing down some NPCs. It has some of the feeling of capturing a resource point, but more ephemeral.
I'm pretty sure they tried this a while ago in the pre-alpha (before my time in the pre-alpha), and found it much too snowbally; whoever got ahead in the early game would dominate the rest with no comeback potential.
If some "exponential" feel to resources/production were to be targeted in this game, I'd like to see it represented in physical map objectives (e.g. capture points, resource generators, etc) which are contestable and which are involved in the map control aspect of the game, rather than just invisible and automatic.
Yeah the KPjotac made a fair point with the exponential feel but in a standard rts there was always a way to harass and slow down your opponents eco, this would not be the case if we simply increased the benefits of the resource queue as there is no way for enemy players to affect it.
If there will be an exponential eco growth it needs to be in a form where it is possible to slow it down.
Multiple fronts and force distribution in an rts is important, in atlas it is really hard to have more then 2 fronts by yourself, but if you look at it as a 1vs1 with 3 "generals" that control the armies then you see that the game is more like an rts then it first seems.
They went for making the game more micro intensive where every unit has an ability or two or threee or is really squishy. This makes the game hold you on edge but it also narrows your focus to a small part of the map, this is why having 3 "generals" works out as they can efficiently split up and manage the units.
Honestly I don't see a way to make the game work in its current form without having the match be a 3v3 because once you go down to a 2vs2 or 1vs1 some heroes get a really big advantage, melee units become much more viable as the unit count lowers and squishy units get harder to defend when there are no allies to hide behind.
This would be even more pronounced if they introduced control points as ranged units and casters could never hold a point from melee units unless they have a buffer between them.
What I dislike is how long it takes to kill the creeps that are inside the base, particularly in early-mid game. Since they are inside the base they discourage PvP (unless you split your army). Add to that the fact that those creeps are located far away from everything else and it creates those PvE phases where each team is just killing creeps. The creeps and critters near the middle area of the map are great as they force players to contest them.