Bot Play and First Impressions [TW3 Megathread]
How was your first experience in Atlas playing against bots? Did they help you learn the game? Were they fun to play against? Were you confused about anything at the end of your first game?
When providing feedback, please use the following format:
- X happened
- It made me feel Y (or I’d like to feel Y)
- (optional) Here’s a suggestion to improve it
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Comments
this is after watching the tutorial video and playing the first game
The mini-map didn't feel like it had enough detail or maybe too much detail and not enough description. It was hard for me to figure out where the expansions were and what objectives i was suppose to go for the first few games. It didn't quite help that the bots would win the game before i could fully explore.
Also i didn't quite understand the difference between the two different unit buildings, there was the one that only produces two units and then one that produces the mercenaries, is there a need for them to come from different buildings?
Also i'm not sure what the neutral creeps on the map that have difficulties assigned to them(medium, brutal, ect.) were for. They were harder to kill than the enemies base and unless they were near a expansion i would avoid them.
Really it was the mini-map that made me feel most frustrated. Maybe i'm used to sc2 but i was hard pressed to know exactly were expansions and side objectives were from just a glance. Also I kept clicking it and it wouldn't move my camera to that location, that is something i'd really like.
I've played about 5 games or so now. The bots will often get "stuck" in regards to surrounds and collision. When this happens they don't attack and keep trying to run to their target while they are stuck. This makes me feel guilty. I take advantage of this because I am not a good player and have to resort to this to win battles sometimes. When it is my teammates though, it is only frustration as I am unable to move my teammates units to allow my units through.
played single player sc2 and like 2k hours of dota 2.
These are my impressions after my very first bot game. I understand a lot of my problems are probably due to ignorance, but I still think it's important.
Second game was way more interesting, after i actually figured out what the abilities do and how to upgrade tech, which made everything a lot more interesting. I didnt do anything but build units and fight, which was fun. Getting blocked by my teammates creeps was still pretty lame.
One of the thing that bugged me was that the Juggernaut obtained from getting 10 pearls is selected when I use the "~" key, the juggernaut is timed and is gotten with your consent. I have a hard time imagining someone who forgets they had the juggernaut after finishing the event. This makes microing around your juggernaut much harder as anytime you try to reselect your army the juggernaut will stupidly walk over ontop of your ennemy's army and you need to shift click it out of your group every time.
What I noticed initially: During the first game I played I noticed two things that may be related. #1: I noticed that while I was working on the objectives in the game the bots were fighting each other's units for the most part. Eventually this led to all 5 bots being in emergency mode while I was still at a solid 125ish supply. I was then able to win the game singlehandedly, since none of the bots could really contribute to the game after losing their stock. #2: I noticed was that it took a while to traverse from one part of the map to the other with my army, (I haven't played around with the game too much, so I am unaware if there is some sort of teleport mechanic).
How I felt: #1 made me feel as if the game had pretty much ended after the bots had all reached emergency mode, even though their base was barely harmed. I had a lot more fun before this happened than after it reached this point. #2 Made me feel as if I had to plan out my moves strategically, and that I was often out of position (I found it hard to retreat back to defend, or to join my allies to attack), which was both frustrating, but also fun in a certain respect.
My suggestion: I do not think #2 is necessarily a bad thing, I like the idea of where your units are on the map at a given time being a part of the strategy of the game. However, I think having such a massive stock imbalance was not very fun. I'm not sure if the imbalance was because it was a bot match, or if it was because of the style I played. However, the imbalance of stock might be reduced if it was easier/faster to join fights (offensively or defensively). This might be accomplished through resizing the map, changing unit speeds, some sort of teleport feature (if it isn't there already). This is just my initial impression though, and PvP could turn out to be a vastly different experience, or perhaps further bot matches will reveal a different reason for the stock imbalance I experienced.
A couple things I particularly enjoyed: I thought the size of the army I was controlling at any given time felt good (in my ability to control and manage it, in terms of the actual battles that were fought, and how it grew over the course of the game). I also very much enjoyed the supply mechanic, and loved the strategy behind making sure I made the best out of engagements rather than just throwing my army at the other players base (like other RTS games I've played).
Artillery Games has done some nice work so far, keep it up!
I feel as though my units and hero are extremely slow. (I know there's a small sprint available as a relic)
I pushed into objectives or into the ennemy expansions in order to halt production
The entire ennemy team shoved down one of our lanes, making it nearly impossible for me to return to my base in any "normal" amount of time, and it sort of forces me to keep trying to push and sort of forces a base-trade situation
I spent a while confused how to quickly select my base to make units. For a while I scrolled my screen back to it when I needed to make units. Then I remembered Day9 saying I could select it and Ctrl+5 and then 5 to select it again. And that worked but I still wondered if there was a quicker way.
Main feelings i have after having played a good number of bot games to start out:
* First game i feel like offers alot of options without a guide or recommendations of what is easiest to start with
* I feel that the bot games get you used to always starting in the same location and with intro bots thats probobly a good thing but i feel if you're solo bot fighting it should randomize starting position just so you get used to the other spots.
* Minion pathing and body blocking feels really bad to start, however as you get more used to it you learn to work with it and it feels more rewarding so i'd say thats really a judgement call on what you want it to be
* The heroes all feel very distinct (played 6/8 so far) however i'm still trying to figure out where the mercenaries fit in since most of the time i just want to keep furthering my heroes plan so i keep building my heroes units
* I feel like the game has a massive skillcap both mechanically and strategically which i think is a great thing and i look forward to getting better and watching it grow, had a great set of games already and looking forward to more through the weekend.
I haven't gone through the previous posts, so I'm sorry if things have been mentioned already.
First of all I'd like to say all in all the game feels crisp. The actual "feel" of the game (the clicks, the movements, etc.) is awesome.
There was one thing that was a bit off: I ran the game in windowed fullscreen mode and moving the screen around was working fine in every direction except for when I was trying to move downwards. I then switched to fullscreen and it fixed that, but my mouse cursor was still moving to my other monitors.
The music also felt a tad too easygoing. I'm probably describing how it felt oddly, but basically it made me feel like I was playing a children's game, even though it clearly is not.
I didn't understand much at first, and barely helped my bots. We got crushed aha. I hadn't watched the intro video, though.
Looking forward to further testing!
Hello Artillery Games. My past experience in comparable games are the following; Rank 1 HOTS (last summer) , gold 1 LOL (last season) , masters Sc2 (this season). And below is my feedback:
The good
Parts of Atlas I didn't like (aside from graphics)
1. Game speed
I am of the opinion that the complaints of "too short battle" in Sc2 have nothing to do with the actual damage values/unit HP's and more to do with the lack of defenders advantage in the game. BW for instance had even higher damage values/less values than in Sc2, but through abilities like Dark Swarm we could get lots of small battles multiple times throughout the game.
Fast movement speed + high damage values is imo an essential part of a "high skillcap"-RTS game (or MOBA for that matter). Imagine splitting Marines vs Banelings in 50% slowmotion. That would be much easier for even medicore players to do optimally.
In Atlas I didn't like spending 30+ seconds in order to kill a neutral camp. And during engagements it would feel like there was nothing to do for a while (low skillcap) as I just waited until the health bars dropped below critical level.
With an increase in damage values and movement speed, you will (a) increase the skillcap and (b) minimize dead periods as you can get faster from A to B.
Further, when getting scraps (i think that was what they were killed) the 4 second CD was pretty annoying and felt like it slowed the game down unnecasarily.
2. Too many (upgrade) choices at once
I argue that the games gives too many choices in terms of upgrades. Having to choose between 8 different upgrades in the "upgrade building" is overwhelming.
I much prefer the HOTS-talent approach to upgrades for 3 reasons (1) It Gets rid of "bad/unviable" decisions, (2) Makes it easier for the player to see which types of decisions are available at any given point in time, (c) Better at creating true opportunity costs since each choice (at a given level/tier) are mutually exclusive.
Below is an example of the type of the type of talent-system I imagine:
When you start the game you get a "tier 1 talent available"-popup message. When you click on it, you can choose between 3 upgrades/talents (1) Upgrade your tier 1 units defensive stats, (2) upgrade your tier 1 units offensive stats/ability, (3) modify something with your hero.
After researcing to tier 2 (3) you get a similar choice, but this time for your tier 2 (3) unit.
3. Going back to base/using control groups to build units
As an experienced Sc2 player it's obviously not difficult me to hotkey structures and build units, but.... I rather just have Atlas go full MOBA here. Make it possible to build units/upgrades (or talents as I want it) without clicking on a structure. E.g. perhaps if there was some type of pop up or icon on the top side of the screen, and then the production buildings could be removed.
Things I don't initially like, but where I could change my mind after playing PvP
1. Army size/production speed
A common complaint about Sc2 has been that it has too much deathball, but I don't agree that it has anything to do with the absolute army size (production speed), but instead is related to factors such as economy incentive, defenders advantage and unit-design. The choice between "high production speed/large armies vs. small armies" should mostly be decided upon which type of system makes for the most fun engagement.
And in my opinion, the best thing about Starcraft 2 is controlling a large army spread out over all the map. Microing a big bio force feels rewarding and skillful. Sure in the early game in be fun to poke around with a little army, but eventually you want to look forward to bigger engagements.
Maybe I didn't play long enough in Atlas, but the majority of the time I controlled < 15 units at once. And if that's the case, I fear that the micro-interactions will feel too similar to that of a MOBA, and the MOBA-market is already way way oversaturated. Whereas the "fast-paced large army + low learng curve"-RTS market is nonexistant. (Sc2 is like high learning curve + fast units + passive/macro oriented).
That said, I understand that a larger-army game would not function well with the current pathing and ofc one must also take into account what would happen to the FPS since its a 3v3, game but a clean pathing + larger armies would be my ideal RTS game.
2. The PvE/jungle element
I may be biased here, because I rather play games where I can interact directly with an opponent as much as possible. In League of Legends I loved the midlane as it would be a constant engagement of attempting to land skillshots and dodge the opponents skillshots. When players "Jungle" in LOL, I am sure that the part of the role they like the most is ganking. Not actually killing AI monsters.
And in Atlas, I am not 100% sure what the idea behind adding "jungle"/neutral camps to the game is. Yes Wc3 added it many years ago and MOBA's are using it now, but it doesn't mean that there aren't different ways to accomplish the same thing while interacting directly with your opponent.
Anyway, its not a huge issue for me as long as the PvE isn't taking overhand (like if it only took 10 seconds to clear a camp instead of 30+ seconds). And maybe it does add some cool opening options/diversity once you get better at the game, so I could be wrong here.
My initial experience after playing a few rounds against bots is one of content. If you're a casual/seasoned RTS/MOBA player you should have no issues picking up the initial concept of the game. The bots seemed fairly useless in the intro bot games, a little more structure or guidance in the game would make loads of difference for someone whom has no/very little RTS/MOBA experience.
The game play itself was fairly smooth minus some character collision glitches that occurred specifically with workers. The AI Units seemed as if they were carelessly wandering around the map colliding and getting stuck to one another not really giving you a sense of the over all objective of the game. Upgrading my units didn't feel like it had a big impact on the game at all and having the ability to upgrade so many things at once was rather confusing. It might be cliche but having a tier system or another building system where you can spec your units to a certain upgrade might be something to consider.
I like the old school Warcraft 3 "jungle" style of game play where you need to kill neutral mobs for experience. It's a neat concept but I feel the overall need for it lost compared to the rest of the game. I suggest giving off buffs or bonus' after killing some of the neutral "jungle" creeps, even if it's just minor speed boosts or 2% extra damage or something, would give the very farm like task more meaning or a better sense of reward.
I've only seen/used about half of the units in the game so far but as far as balance of units go I haven't hit an issue yet. More testing will give me a better understanding of unit interactions but as far as that goes I've only noticed unit sizing is an issue due to model collisions. That being said it creates a unique aspect of the game where micro interactions can become extremely important in deciding a game winning fight or not.
The base game so far is smooth, learning all of the unit combinations will be a fun time, I just find the game lacks true objective focus, making player/bot kills more rewarding would make a huge impact on the game and overall feeling of the game.
I felt indifferent when I first started playing this game. It just felt like starcraft combined with like league of legends without the appeal of either.
Now that I've gotten a good amount of games under my belt, I feel like I'm just starting to scrape the surface of this game, and I seem to be liking it more and more with each game I play.
Loving the game already, been out of RTS's a long time and was probably never very good at them to begin with, but I love the direction this game has taken by freeing up brain power that once had to be dedicated to resource management and build out the combat and tactics portion of the game instead. Genius idea, and even though I'm still having some trouble adjusting, I love the direction.
The intro bots are definitely helping me get used to the game, they're nicely paced to where you can make plenty of mistakes and get to know your characters pretty well (for instance, wasn't sure for certain squad abilities if you had multiple of a unit could you use that ability for as many units as you had without worrying about the cooldown, but I was able to just go experiment in the corner a bit and still be perfectly fine).
I am getting destroyed by the regular bots, but I'm hoping with more practice and going in with a squad I actually know I'll be able to win out as I'm noticing the more I play the intros I'm closer to my allies' levels by the end than when I started.
I decided to play without reading any tutorials just to see what the UX would be like without any hand holding. I have played 2 games so far and here are my thoughts.
First Game
Squad Screen: Once I chose a hero, I could not find the confirm button for a little bit. I felt a bit silly because it appeared right over the hero but it was so dull in color compared to the rest of the UI that I did not notice. Maybe if it was a full overlay over the hero with big text that said "Confirm?" it would be better?
Once I started the game I noticed that my bot-mates instantly popped out their heroes and a couple of units and began to mob farming. Queuing units was not a problem. Trying to figure out how to bring out units from the main base took me about 2 minutes. Going into the game without any sort of avatar to start with like in MOBAs, and with a queuing and deployment system without explicit triggers, made me feel a bit lost. I'm not quite certain of a queuing and deployment system is really necessary. Seems like SC2 building and auto deployment would work just as well and take away a bit of confusion to the player.
Once you figure out how the queuing system works then the mercenary buildings aren't too hard to understand. I looked at the buildings in the beginning and was confused at which building was which. The only way I can really tell is by starting placement once the game starts, and only because I click on each manually to see what it can build. Do the buildings look so similar because the assets do not exist? If not, please consider making the merc buildings look more distinguishable from the main base.
All the blue and red bubbles on the map were confusing and I did understand the idea behind "building" on the gems until the last 5 minutes of the game. UX wise, they DO look like EXP gems so that was good. But I was confused on how to collect them. Experience wise perhaps "Building" on exp gems may not make the most intrinsic sense. Perhaps changing the hero "Build" icon text to "Capture" would make much more sense.
The Charm Shop was fine. Everything made sense. There are a lot of choices however. There is something I noticed about the charm shop, but I will mention in the second game section.
Once I learned how to deploy units, the game became a lot easier for me. Since I did not know about gem capturing, I mainly just tried to get some more experience and support my bot-mates, since I was lower level because of my late start.
We won.
Second Game
I was able to deploy early and mob farm gaining us a very early advantage that lasted for the entire game.
I made sure to gem capture as much as possible. This is when I realized that the gem towers in the middle grant you a guardian on the tenth team collection. I was confused and surprised. I don't think most new players will realize this fact for a while unless it is somehow alluded to even without guides. Perhaps as gems are collected from the tower, bits and pieces of the guardian can be built so that players can have a visual cue that they are building up to that.
As a second piece on the guardian, once I had one I was confused and frustrated that it only worked as a meat shield/tank for my army to army battle. I did not realize that they could only attack towers. In fact, I only learned of this fact after the game once I read the tutorial guide. If I had never read that they could attack towers, I would probably have thought that they could not attack at all. To show that it can attack and to give impetus to players to use the guardian against towers (as they were planned to), perhaps giving the guardian a very weak attack with attack animation to units might be useful. This way players will not come to the conclusion from an army vs army battle that the guardian cannot attack at all.
I tried running into the enemies base and the base defender rocked some of my units. That made it very clear that base harassment is not a thing in this game. If that was the intention, well done!
Once I had a pretty good understanding of the basic map goal mechanics, I started wondering about the economy mechanics. For me a lot of it makes me feel like it lacks agency. I took the early expansion, and I tried to collect as many gems for the stock and scrap bonuses, but the bonuses are far and few and random, and the scrap and stock gathering back at base feels like I don't have much control. But maybe that's just how the game is.
Final Thoughts
The game is pretty interesting so far. I'll keep on playing and give it another couple of games before I write another review. Thank you for your hard work!
Great feedback guys keep em coming!
Remember to try intro bots first if this is your first test weekend, its the best place to learn the flow of the game. Into bots also teach you some of the core mechanics that are sadly not intuitive currently such as hitting v to deploy units.
Also if possible let us know how many games you've played so far in your post, the extra bit of context goes a long way!
First impressions after about 8 games last night. I immediately jumped into a bot match without watching the tutorial.
The good: I think the game is fun. I wanted to play one game before bed, but I ended up pressing play 7 more times. So there's that. Microing individual units reminds me of WC3, albeit simpler, and I'm about overdosing on the delightful waves of nostalgia that game invokes. I'll play some more, and look forward to trying out the PVP mode.
The bad: in itemized list form.
1) This game feels far closer to DOTA than to traditional RTS, which is not necessarily a bad thing, it is just not what I expected. True, we have individual units, but they are slow, and generally pretty weak in segmented groups. I haven't found a situation yet where multi tasking is the solution, and not for lack of trying. But hell, it's a team game... the concept of multitasking might just be shifted to a paradigm where each teammate accomplishes tasks in parallel rather than a single person accomplishing multiple things themselves.
2) Base building is really unsatisfying. You just click "build," then click on the spot. And there's no management beyond that. I want to feel like I've made a huge choice to build an expansion. And I want to feel like losing an expansion is a huge deal. Currently, I shrug. "Meh, I'll expand if there's an open slot, I guess. Why not?" I'd like to have choices about how the base develops. Maybe I just like traditional RTS and need to get used to it?
3) Clearing creeps prior to expanding is just such a static experience vs. bots; it's slow, and I haven't felt the pressure of having a proper creep route as per WC3. In PVP will this change? I dunno. Will someone ever come creep jack me? Or try to steal the XP? Or steal an item at the last second? I tried creep-jacking the bots at their natural expansions, but the healing tower was so close that it seemed really wasteful. Maybe PVP interactions can help.
4) The gem collection system is without a doubt my least favorite part of the game. It's very 2005 Alterac Valley, if you know what I mean. Gems become a resource, I get that, and I dig that there's a big point of conflict right in the middle of the map, but collecting them is really tedious. Just kinda... sit there and click up to 10.
I've played 3 bot games now.
I like the diversity of units. It really feels like there is a lot of strategic depth to discover as I play more.
The unit collisions made me quite frustrated. Friendly units bump into each other so much that it makes micro to reposition units almost impossible. There was even a time where my whole army was blocked by an ally's army. I think better unit pathing and smaller hitboxes for collision would make the micro experience much more satisfying.
The minimap feels very cluttered. It's hard to distinguish enemy units from the blobs created by towers.
At this point, I have to echo Razukee. Besides the Jugg mechanic I enjoyed basically everything else speaking with regard for the games current state. I've played 8 or so bot matches total as of this post.
On the topic of the Juggernaut, I feel like it should be an AI controlled unit that pushes to the nearest tower; attacking any enemy structures along the way. Giving players the ability to attack the Jugg before it becomes active seems less than ideal as well. I say this mainly because I'm not use to this type of mechanic. Similar objectives in other games I have played do not function this way (Heroes of the Storm, etc). Honestly, you may be on to something here in terms of skill ceiling, so I guess the question is is it worth it overall. Right now it's just awkward for me personally. My reliance on the tilde key to find and select my army along with build queue/times (I'm use to Protoss warp-ins) adds to the frustration a bit.
Edit: Actually, there is one more aspect I was less than satisfied with which is the scrap acquisition rate and/or upgrade costs. It feels like I am getting too much too quickly. I rarely feel like I need to seek out an expansion or creep to attain more. My understanding of timings and the difficulty of my opponents (bots) likely weighs heavily on this, but currently I would like to feel more pressure to do those extra objectives for scrap rather than just to occupy downtime between the center objective spawns and/or army battles.
Here's my first impression stream of thought. These are purely opinions, so take them or leave them. Overall I love the idea behind the game and the artwork and sounds are wonderful! I have seen no huge technical problem yet, so I'm pretty impressed at the stability so far.
I'd have to say the game is not yet intuitive. I am a long time RTS junkie (starting with the original C&C - RIP Westwood - and Warcraft 2 and have never left the genre) and so I just clicked through all the defaults. This meant skipping the video with the beautiful and talented Day9, selected Vs Bots (not intro bots) and getting to the selection screen. That's the first area of feedback - for the first game, I don't know what intro bots meant (I know now after watching part of the intro video), but clearly that's probably the best thing to set as the default...especially since I said I'm a "Casual RTS player". If all of the issues I had are answered in the video, I apologize in advance, but eventually I'd imagine it'd need to be to the pick up and play level. Maybe not - maybe you're going for a more technical game, so you have a base requirement that everyone watches an intro video for 30 minutes. I was too excited to wait!
The choices for heroes are daunting. The tool tips keep losing their z-index priority, so sometimes they're in front of all elements on the screen, sometimes not - often the right side of a bubble would be visible, but not the left half. So it was hard to read the hero choices. It was hard to understand how the hero selection changed things vs the 4 options at the top. What's the relationship between the two lists of choices (do minions change, do abilities change, do stats change)? Maybe a more tutorial focused flow? Aggro/Support/Defense, then go from there.
So in the game, I quickly figured out how to click my workers, select my building to build an army and...get confused as I was clicking my allies. Where's MY hero? I can't find him. Why isn't he out by default? Having my guys sit in their building until I tell them to leave is counter-intuitive to all previous RTS experience. Build a guy, have him pop out and march to the rally point - that's a common understanding. Having to deploy them manually is awkward. I did not (and still don't - I need to watch the video fully and do intro bots still) understand the relationship of workers, mining, resources, defensive buildings, creature camps, and heroes in the middle. In my second game at least I figured out that 10 coins = powerful helper and that I can't touch my opponents coins.
Also...it wasn't clear why my supply increases, or why there are limits to my army composition. If with an empty army I have space for 3 of my most power guys, why can I only build 2 and I'm forced to build 20 of my little guys? Can I increase that per unit limit? If so, how?
The first game I lost because I didn't know what I was doing (only halfway through did I figure out how to launch my hero)...and that's ok. The second game I won, but really by abusing the rough AI. Lure the AI to my tower and then attack...focus on the powerful helper in the middle and kill their towers.
My own AI allies also were very poor. While I was trying to defend our turret under attack by 2 enemy heroes, my ally would walk past the group and go towards the center. The map pings don't focus their attention either. So there's a lot of work to do there - but I'm sure you guys know this already.
My hero is often getting stuck behind my own units. My own units often ignore the fight very close by. The minions that have a flamethrower ability (like a cone of fire) will fire too early if you tell them to fire outside their current range....they'll move forward, but then shoot while they're still out of range.
I'm excited to play more later today and tomorrow, but those were my initial impressions. I want to try all the heroes and see what the 4 square/circle/etc. choices actually impact, since I still don't know. It looks like a game with a ton of depth, but the initial impression made me more confused than anything. I'll take the time to watch the whole day9 video and do the intro bots and see how much better I understand the gameplay.
I'm on the fence with this. I recognize the comparison to siege camps in HotS, but I think this added flexibility is an interesting idea. I think it works better with this game since you're used to controlling multiple units already where with a more traditional moba design, it's disjointed to go from one unit to multiple (lost vikings are still problematic for me in that game).
I think this could be very useful and exciting and would love to see a match (maybe amongst the Devs?
) where it was well managed and not just 1-A
Hey Wolverino thanks for playing the game, glad you took the time to post here and post your thoughts.
I watched your second game, and I definitely can see some frustrating moments. I'd highly recommend trying out the intro bots for a bit, not cause theyre easier, youve already managed to win against the much harder regular bots. Mostly to get down some of the mechanics, like building expansions, buying items, etc.
Ugh
Regular pings do actually focus the AI player, they'll even chat/ping at that location letting you know they got the message, however they will not travel across the map for you and they wont come if theyre in the middle of a fight either.
Being able to bait the AI to fight under the tower imo is alright, in the long run when we have harder bots we'll want them to have better positioning.
I'm glad! Each squad plays very differently and some are harder then others! Eris is actually one of harder squads so congrats
Just finished my first Intro Bots game - had a blast, and ended up winning!
First Thoughts
I'm sure a solid tutorial is in the works, but without Day9's intro video, I would've been totally lost.
Prior to the game, I was prompted to choose one of many heroes. While the hero abilities/unit abilities are well explained, I felt confused. I wasn't sure how to gauge the relative strengths and weaknesses of each hero, nor which heroes were appropriate for a beginner. In the end, I went with Hydros, who I assume, being a defensive/healing style hero, is easier to learn than other, more fragile heroes.
In addition, I had no idea at all what Merc Squad to choose. I ended up going with a Squad which was able to support my defense with healing and more defense, but, again, the relative strengths and weaknesses felt hidden to me.
For both of these issues, I've seen in other games relative bar charts - fairly meaningless indicators of "This hero has a 5/5 for healing" and "This squad has 2/5 scouting, but 5/5 combat." I feel like something along those lines would've abated my confusion. Perhaps a nice outline with "Recommended based on your choice of hero" or something like that, too.
Once I was in game, the small dialogue boxes which popped up were generally so small that I didn't notice them, and when I did notice them, I wasn't always sure what they were referring to. Thus, I ended up feeling like they were kind of useless.
For example, one box told me to "Press 'T' with my hero selected to build an expansion." However, I was nowhere near an available expansion (or, more likely, I didn't notice the dialogue box until I was too far away from the expansion for the box to be of any use). It'd be nice to make the boxes more noticeable, perhaps with some kind of sound.
Another box told me to "Press 'Q' to select your base and build units." However, I currently had a unit in my army with a 'Q' ability, so when I pressed 'Q' and was not able to build units, I was very confused, since the ability activated, instead of my UI selecting my main base.
Overall, I'm excited to see how this pans out. Even a bot game felt fun - there's a lot going on. It feels like a MOBA+ - more strategic depth than something like League, but still easy enough for me to follow as a viewer.
So the bot game I was in would be going great, however I feel that because I'm not glued to the minimap as often as I am, sometimes I wouldn't recognize that something is happening in the map. Like my bot allies taking down the enemy Nexus... By the time I realize what's happening, the game would be over and whatever I was doing (securing expansions) was meaningless at that point in time.
I feel like the audio and visual cues are too "soft". When you play games like StarCraft or LoL, the cues are very "serious" and alerts you that you need to do something about it. I don't feel pressed to defend or attack based on the audio/visual cues. I don't know how to say it but it needs more "oomph".
More bass to the audio warning/alerts? Make it sound more serious/pressing. The colors on the minimap could be more sharp or distinct so it pops out more...
One more thing: When selecting all units, I would very much prefer that it does not select the Guardian Aspect because I usually end up microing back in forth with my main army when I just want it to attack a tower or move somewhere and it ends up derping.
Basically this. I will say everything was much more obvious after the intro video. I think a good addition might be to describe a decent kit to get someone started. Like...almost a better playscript of "This hero, this merc set, these items, and focus on this upgrade path" just as a good example where you won't get steamrolled due to lack of knowledge. I guess it's hard to do that as the game can still go very sideways based upon the opponents and your allies and what they choose to prioritize...but I think it's doable.
I see. I guess I'm used to something more like HotS (when a player leaves or if you've got AI allies) where they try to disengage more forcefully and respond quickly. If the allied bots prioritized defending bases (I realize not always a good strategy), it'd be more helpful.
I suppose this one's a little different than something like LoL where 3 shots from the tower might kill you, but I was still surprised to see a bot try to 1:1 me while I had the upper hand in health while we both sat under my tower. A Napoleon Complex bot.
How was your first experience in Atlas playing against bots?
Terrible, I felt powerless when my allies suicided and the enemy team steamrolled me.
I've had much better games since then.
Did they help you learn the game?
Not really, all I understood was that I had units and needed to fight, so I just spammed my T1 guys and tried to pick off enemies. Took me a couple games to understand the geyser, it's a really unique mechanic.
Were they fun to play against?
A little, I was happy they let me practice rotating out low-health units and didn't run too far when I tried to kill them, but somehow I still got thrashed and then I felt confused (bad army composition? don't know).
Were you confused about anything at the end of your first game?
I had no idea what I could have done differently. I went for a melee army with healing and it seemed like the hands-down worst army I could have built, but I couldn't tell if I lost from under producing or not securing enough geysers or creeping hard enough. After I looked around on the forums, I tried a Ryme's ranged army, I had a blast and actually started putting the pieces of the game together:
Things you need to keep track of during each game:
1. Your money
2. Your unit production
3. Your supply
4. Your stock
5. Your upgrades
6. Your items
7. The Geysers
8. Creeping new scrap sources
9. Sniping heroes and not letting yours die
10. Your Towers
11. The enemy towers
12. Wards if you don't have enough to keep track of yet.
This is, in some ways, more complexity than either MOBAs or RTSs. The funny thing is it's really easy to play once you know all this, but something that's simple to learn can be fairly complex to explain.
How was your first experience in atlas against bots?
Initially i was overwhelmed, in experiencing the game first hand. But it reminded me of my times in starcraft and it certainly was something i enjoyed looking back at. The thing that surprised me the most the having all the abilities in a single selection in an army. Overall i had a blast going through my first game.
Did they help you learn the game?
They did that very well, but it wasn't until the second game when i noticed a pattern from the bot i spawned next to. Every time i would begin the game the bot would go from the easy neutral, to the medium above us, and the other medium on the top region. It gave me a good sense of how to start early game. But without day 9's video it wouldn't have given me much insight into the more advance mechanics such as collecting gems and how the charm shop worked.
Were they fun to play against?
They were very fun to play against. I found it very interesting that allied Ai would flank an enemy if you would distract them in the front. But it seems that they would be too committed to their call to retreat or attack as they would run head first into the tower or the enemy's army while at low health. But overall they were very solid for the game so far in terms of development.
Were you confused about anything at the end of your first game?
The thing i was confused about the most in the game would be figuring out how to take out the neutral camp effectively. As starting composition is vitally important and its been hard to piece it all together.
Experiences & Suggestions for Improvement
I often times found myself wondering where my team was after they went head first into an engagement with the enemy. Next thing i know, i found myself trapped between the three enemy armies after i ran in to help them out. As i look to the text my allies put out, "Im retreating" and i felt like i really screwed up as my troops turned into experience points for the opponents. It wasn't until the 6th time it happened when i realized there was a very soft audio cue in the retreat.
I feel like they are a bit too soft, unlike in Star craft II when the person screams at the top of their lungs "Not Enough Pylons" or "Too many Underlings" to signal that you are supply blocked.
During those times of being surrounded by the enemy, i would try to escape with at least the hero and a few of the units. Its a moment of utter and full panic in trying to save as many people as you can. When i tried to click them out by having them run away from the enemy they would get stuck on other units and do this conjoined sort of dance with the other one. In the end of that they would end up dying due to the time wasted. I felt terrible losing my entire army so quickly and watching the supply get freed up was agonizing. It felt exactly like a game changing battle in starcraft II when this fight would determine the winner. But there was still a chance of victory despite one bad encounter with the enemy, due to the quick respawning times and the opportunity of another fight.
Its certainly something that would be fixed through more time in development but the unit pathing outside of your units are a bit troublesome. Its like having units hold position to block a chock point on a ramp and watch your campaign ally run into you and build up except it was unintentionally.
Good Luck Have Fun Everyone!
Base on the steamrolly-ness I imagine you didnt get a chance to try out the intro bots first? I highhhllyy recommend them as you first one or two games JUST to get use to the flow of the game.
After one or two games did all those mechanics listed to you become more intuitive? Does the end game now make more sense to you after playing a few more bot games?
KennySilver! This is very well thought out piece of feedback! I'm suuppppeerr happy you had such a great first experience! It seems like you learned alot. I hope PvP turns out even better for you Sunday!
How was your first experience in Atlas playing against bots?
Overall good! Haven't lost a game yet(4), though my closest one so far was 30 minutes in when the servers froze on Friday night
Did they help you learn the game? Were you confused about anything at the end of your first game?
Parts of it. The basics of unit building and objectives are there, but I still don't really know when it's worth it to focus on expansions, attack vs defend, etc. Expansions don't really seem like they're worth it with everything else going on on the map. The towers in the middle always seem more important, and with 3 there's almost always one up to fight over. Expansions/creeps seem like a good way to get units killed without gaining much. Maybe if capturing an expansion gave a small amount of the little red supply (idk what it's called) on initial capture.
Were they fun to play against?
Yes. The only thing that made it less fun was the pathing. The pathing seems like it needs a little bit of work. Also, sometimes I'd try to retreat but get stuck on my allies who weren't retreating and my units would die with nothing I could do about it. That was really frustrating.
I'm sure this will come with time, but right now I don't really understand what my opponents are. I see their units, but I don't recognize what those units are/can do. So I just kind of throw my army at the opponents and hope for the best, not knowing if my comp is strong or weak against theirs.
I LOVE that you don't have to cycle through units to use all abilities. As an admittedly pretty bad RTS player, that was always something that felt unnecessarily hard in SC2.
The different lanes on the map don't seem like they have the same priority to kill. Some lead straight to the nexus while others lead to the main buildings that you can't even kill. It feels like there is no point to push down those lanes. Even to take out the healing tower it seems better to push down a different lane then come up behind and take it out for the extra supply.
I don't like that the enemies orbs show up so prominent on the minimap. You can't capture them, and you can't destroy them (can you?) so why do we need to see them? I keep looking at the map and seeing 4 huge red dots and thinking I'm under attack, but it's nothing.
Having tons of fun so far!