Megathreads Unite!

KleosKleos Member

I started by making a comment in the art section but realized some of my comments kinda overlapped different departments. So I figured I'd just place everything in my own post it was just easier for me to get my all my thoughts down at once rather than try and break them up between the different sections. Before anyone gets butthurt I want to make it very clear I am enjoying this game and feel honored to be a part of this Alpha. That said it is clearly in its Alpha and we cant learn anything if we don't make mistakes and get feedback on said mistakes. Incoming brutal feedback. <3

Bot Games:
If its an RTS I've more than likely played it. From Dune, C&C, Warcrafts 1-3, LOTR, Starcraft 1-2, Age of Empires, as well as countless "free to play" online garbage RTS games and tons of DLC/expansions for those mentioned and then probably some I cant even remember. That said I entered my first bot game after watching the basic tutorial to learn about resource gathering and then proceeded to experiment with unit comps and engagements etc etc. I had a very clear lead on my opponents being about 3-4 levels higher on my hero and having cleared many extra resource gathering nodes. and was just casually training through the tech tree getting a bigger and bigger army and th.... WTF the bots suddenly grouped up and took out a tower... They just took out one of the mega node towers protecting my nexus!??! woah the gameplay just jumped up to a whole new tier! haha the game went from autopilot, lets explore, to **** I need to win like in the next 3-5 mins otherwise my army wont be able to fend off this 3 man push cause my bot allies are super slow to respond. To say the least I was very surprised at the sudden change in tactics by the computer, was still able to pull out a win, but it definitely meant I had to rush through my casual walk in the park I was enjoying as I fiddled with gameplay and basic mechanics. Overall was a good experience, but I can foresee those not as well versed in RTS games being a little taken back by the sudden jump in difficulty and claiming the game is too hard. Definite future plans for difficulty levels are a must! (I want that brutal difficulty setting today! need to hone my skills for a future in reaching the grandmaster/challenger/elite league haha)

Neutral Monster Camps:
Game 1 I realized after my first engagement that these guys were pretty tough and likely to be something you need to coordinate with your team in the early game to capture an early gem resource node. Then I played again and realized their AI pathing needs some work and if I have units with greater than range 8 in my squad I can keep them at their max aggro range and just take any camp down at the start of the game solo... They need a de-aggro mechanic that resets them so you cant just kite them to max range and then snipe them to death. Otherwise gems in center of map are pointless cause all I'm going to do is get early gem resource nodes and out produce my opponent very quickly.

Towers:
Here's just a thought, have healing turned off in tower rings for say 2 seconds after a unit takes damage? otherwise forget taking down a tower that your opponent is actively defending. This game clearly adheres to the concept of defenders advantage. I can see how having 5 towers but only 3 players per side means its more about outmaneuvering my opponent than smashing my head against him over and over again. However, in my bot games I found just defending my towers put me further and further ahead because I was guaranteed to win the fight and thus put my hero at a much higher level.

Resource Management:
I definitely see the gems being the most valuable resource at first glance. I also see the direction that this game is taking being almost a hybrid variant between a moba and an RTS, what with these "lanes" guarded by towers and both teams fighting over resources to better their hero, army size, unit composition etc. However, I noticed one can just ignore the gems in the middle of the map and simply rely on resource nodes for gems to get their fill. In one of my games I had so many gems I didn't know what to do with them all. I found my limiting resource to be the "gold" resource, with no apparent way to increase its default flow I found myself limited in the mid to late game in fleshing out my army with expensive racially specific units. Mercs on the other hand if they weren't limited by a hidden pop cap I'd have been spamming more of them. This leads into my next set of points.

User Interface:
I feel like there should be some visible population cap near my resources? I only found out by trial an error plus looking at week 2's patch notes what some of the pop caps were. I can only have 12 mercs if I recall from the patch notes? seems pretty necessary to add a simple x/12 up in the top left next to my resources. As for the respawnable racial specific units. There appears to be a hidden population cap for each and every specific unit but I cant seem to find anywhere that marks that maybe I'm just missing something.

The selected unit details box to the left of the minimap is very necessary but also very limited. When I research an upgrade or have an aura/buff on my units I feel as if a selected unit should reflect that change. In one instance I did notice it reflected said change. After upgrading the Wisp with combat armor I did notice its hp was increased in its stats. However, the Raptor's range does not reflect any changes when I have Eagle Eye active or when affected by the Windray's Lifting Winds aura. just to name a few.

The abilities box in the bottom left is phenomenal in my opinion. I love how I have every ability available to me when I have my whole army selected. Take notes Blizzard these guys streamlined what you couldn't across 10 different RTS games!

Sound:
I generally always turn in game music off and play my own so sorry not much to comment there

However, I'm not sure if the game just hasn't hit that stage of development for voice actors yet, but to me the voice sound effects for the units is rather abysmally limited.

Also in relation to said limited voice sound effects for units, they all, regardless of race, have the same voice and its robotic in nature. I'm not sure if this is on purpose due to a future addition of backstory that explains the robot sentience or what not. Either way I'm hoping the unit voices are still very much in development as is they add very little to the play experience.

Models:
I generally agree with Atzero (guy who made long comment in art section) many of the unit models look rather plain, Ill agree the purifier looks sweet as well as the Dervish and the first time I saw the Ancient Ice Frog I made a mental "holy wtf, that's a giant frog... and hes licking my units ROFL" Then you get some units that are lacking in nearly any detail. The Sandstinger and Wisp in particular feel as if I just have a swarm of geometric shapes running around with my hero. The sandstinger's idle sometimes has them... sit down? All I see are there heads and without healthbars or the unit pre added to a control group I could see a newish RTS player with little to know map awareness "losing" his unit on the map since this sandstinger idles, sits down and his tiny unit model just became 1/3 as small.

The merc units all appear to be pretty nifty the healer, motivator, and enhancers units models are very similar almost too similar. I can see high level game play with target firing mercs out of my opponents army only to be disappointed I target fired the wrong unit. I messed around with sentinel placement on the map in preparation for playing in the actual PvP, I wanted to see vision range etc. I noticed the sentinels can hide in the foliage of some of the terrain on the ridges. Im not sure if that was intentional or not but I intend to exploit that as a second means of "invisibility" for my Sentinels this upcoming Sunday.

Animations:
I honestly haven't noticed the Bots using many of the special abilities of their respective units with few exceptions. I've seen their terrapin troopers charge and the resulting "dazed status" as well as the very similar scuttleguard's "ball roll" and the Ancient Ice Frogs freeze ability. However some abilities especially hero abilities I have not noticed a single one from the Bots. and some I would like to know if they are visible to my opponent. (I've only played 4 of the races so these are just the ones I've noticed) For instance when I'm ulting with Celesta's "Cleansing Light" can my opponent see the AOE circle? if so the time it takes for that ability to land would make it next to impossible as a means of dealing damage and solely as a means of zoning and creating space since if I saw my opponent casting that you better bet I'm getting the heck out of dodge since it will one shot nearly all my mercs and tier 1-2 units. The Deadeye unit same scenario, can my opponent see the line he makes as hes lining up his sniper shot if so that's something that someone with good micro can exploit to minimize Deadeyes usefulness since either A) Ill just micro that merc, hero, or high tier unit out of the line or B ) I'll micro a near meaningless tier 1 unit in the way.

Icons:
The Icons get the job done for the most part some could use a little more depth due to the fact that they merely look like an obscure explosion and don't really do the ability justice ie, Cleansing Light, Sandblast. Deadeyes "Take Aim" ability is an archery target with an arrow in it? Isn't he clearly carrying a gun around? Wouldn't a sniper gun reticule or even a zoomed in image of a scope on a gun be a bit more in character? As a side note for Deadeye, was his ability name changed from "Basic Snipe" to "Take Aim" because its rather confusing in the upgrades list to distinguish exactly who "Headshot" is augmenting.

Comments

  • KleosKleos Member

    That's it for now. Artillery guys I salute you for the efforts and the chance to play this very promising game. That said it needs a lot of work mechanically as well as aesthetically, but on the whole very well done there is great foundation especially for the game concept being a meld between RTS and MOBA. I intend to keep playing and keeping you guys informed to the best of my ability!

    Kleos

  • Day9Day9 Member, Administrator

    Thanks for the extensive post Kleos!

    Since you wrote quite a bit, I'll comment on some of the key points and if there's anything you'd like specifically addressed, let me know and I'll follow up again!

    For things like bots, art, sound, ui/ux, polish etc, we absolutely agree that these things need work. Currently, we are simply trying to get full coverage. For instance, the enhancer/healer/titan models are the same temp models slightly reskinned. We haven't put any work into sounds lol. We completely agree that these are critical pieces for a complete product. At this point, we're iterating quickly on gameplay mechanics (see TW1 posts) so we can get a great core experience.

    As per some of your gameplay-related comments, such as center gemming not mattering and defending being key, let us know if those still feel true when you are playing PvP. Bots tend not to apply much pressure in those early stages whereas humans do.

  • AceAlAceAl Member

    User Interface:
    I feel like there should be some visible population cap near my resources? I only found out by trial an error plus looking at week 2's patch notes what some of the pop caps were. I can only have 12 mercs if I recall from the patch notes? seems pretty necessary to add a simple x/12 up in the top left next to my resources. As for the respawnable racial specific units. There appears to be a hidden population cap for each and every specific unit but I cant seem to find anywhere that marks that maybe I'm just missing something.

    You did miss it, but it's super hard to find so I didn't see it for several games myself. On the command card button for producing a unit, there is a little gray number in the bottom corner stating how many more of that unit you can make. I think it might also have been in the tab reference page, another well hidden feature.

    Maybe next test weekend we can be rewarded with a full hour of Day[9] explaining the game, including little details like "See this number in the box where I can click to build units?", instead of the mere thirty minutes we got this time. But we'll have to do a really good job play-testing to deserve that.

  • BurdockBurdock Member
    edited March 6

    @Kleos said:
    User Interface:
    I feel like there should be some visible population cap near my resources? I only found out by trial an error plus looking at week 2's patch notes what some of the pop caps were. I can only have 12 mercs if I recall from the patch notes? seems pretty necessary to add a simple x/12 up in the top left next to my resources. As for the respawnable racial specific units. There appears to be a hidden population cap for each and every specific unit but I cant seem to find anywhere that marks that maybe I'm just missing something.

    I am planning on putting together a distilled set of UI feedback and suggestions after seeing posts like this, Gemini_19's, and many others.

    I would love to hear your thoughts on breaking up the units UI info into 2 sections. One for pop/popcap, and one for the unit Queue (active units, ready units, queued units).

    Here is my example image (work and progress)
    (FYI the other "Time Line" bar shows gem spawn waves and upgrades)

    Full screen is suggested

    TopBar.jpg 1.5M
  • Day9Day9 Member, Administrator

    Oh that's a very cute UI representation. I'm gonna link this to the folks working on UI/UX as a reference. UI will be one of those things that will change a LOT going towards release so this is helpful :)

  • BurdockBurdock Member
    edited March 6

    @Day[9] said:
    Oh that's a very cute UI representation. I'm gonna link this to the folks working on UI/UX as a reference. UI will be one of those things that will change a LOT going towards release so this is helpful :)

    Ahhhhk, its not done :D !!!
    I will try and get my UI post up soon after the playtest today :)

Sign In or Register to comment.